AI Interview



Step into the parlour of the Frogmore Street Baptist Church in Abergavenny, Wales, circa 1845. We are sitting down with the formidable, yet deeply compassionate, Rev. Micah Thomas (1778–1853), a foundational scholar in the Welsh Baptist ministry.

Interviewer: Reverend Thomas, thank you for inviting me into your study. You have spent decades faithfully preaching and training men for the ministry. What do you consider the most pressing calling of the Baptist church today?
Rev. Micah Thomas: Our calling, sir, is to the unvarnished exposition of the scriptures and the salvation of souls. The Baptist churches stand upon the bedrock of believer's baptism and liberty of conscience. Yet, these principles must be grounded in sound doctrine. I have always maintained that a cultured, educated, and well-studied ministry is our greatest bulwark against error and ignorance in these turbulent times.
Interviewer: You’ve been the President of the Baptist Academy here in Abergavenny since 1807. Some critics in your early days claimed you were too strict, or that your theological focus was too rigorous. How do you respond to that?
Rev. Micah Thomas: I make no apologies for strictness in matters of eternal consequence! A tutor must lead, not pander. It is true, some found my methods demanding and my Calvinistic orthodoxy unyielding. But I saw it as my sacred duty to forge leaders who can stand unwavering. When a minister enters the pulpit, he is handling the very oracles of God; he must do so with logical precision and thoroughness, not mere sentimentality. I desired nothing less than a learned and devout ministry to spread the Gospel at home and abroad.
Interviewer: Your theological and pastoral work is well documented, but you are also known to be a man deeply engaged with the social realities of the era. I understand you played a pivotal role in the aftermath of the Chartist riots of 1839?
Rev. Micah Thomas: Yes, a tragic and trying chapter for our nation. Men were swept up in desperation and political zeal, and many were convicted of treason. I felt compelled, as a follower of the Prince of Peace, to write a petition pleading for mercy for John Frost and the others. We managed to have their sentences commuted from death to transportation. The Gospel is not merely a set of rules for the afterlife, sir; it demands that we seek justice, liberty, and compassion for the oppressed in this life as well.
Interviewer: Looking back on your life of scholarship, pastoring, and educating, what is your greatest hope for the future of the Baptist denomination?
Rev. Micah Thomas: I pray that we remain "convinced Baptists," ever ready to affirm our distinctive principles, yet harboring no bitter sectarianism. I hope the Academy -  whether here in Abergavenny or wherever the Lord leads it - continues to produce men of deep faith and high learning. Ultimately, our hope rests not in our institutions, but in the sovereign grace of God. We must fan the missionary flame and fanatically hold fast to the truth, even in a world that so eagerly denies His laws.

Will Rachel Thomas (nee Harris)

Gwen Archive D567/15 Copy Probate of will of Rachel Thomas (official) Will of 1849 Feb 14th Probate of 1866 June 2nd by John Harris Conway, Rachel Thomas, wife of Rev. Micah Thomas of Abergavenny. Cites Elizabeth Harris will of 1819, Nov 5th. She inherited one eighth part and one seventh of another one eighth part of the rents on lands left by her grandfather Caleb Harris in will/cited (except share in farm and hereditaments called Duffin Kennol in parishes Llanbedr and Llangenny (C. Brecon). This share was left to Ebenezer Harris in trust for her to bequeathe as she should wish. Cites Lease/Release of 1824 Jan 27/28 (above 7) Will of Ebenezer Harris (above 11) Whatever Rachel Thomas may have inherited under the terms of these wills and Lease/Release to; John Harris Conway of Abergavenny, grocer; Charles Davies of Pontypool, ironmonger; upon trust to pay as follows, to Abrahan Edwards until lately a shopman in the Company's shop at Rhymney Ironworks. 19 guineas to John Harris Conway, Charles Davies (5 guineas for their troubles).The residue to provide an income in his life-time for her husband. The sister Elizabeth Edmunds independent of husband the 8 children of sisters Mary Jenkins, Catherine Price and Ann Conway. i.e. Elizabeth, wife of Charles Fox of Abergavenny, Cabinet maker Rebecca, wife of Charles Davies Elizabeth, wife of Henry Hodgkins of Birmingham. John Harris Conway William Conway of Pontypool, druggist Catherine Conway of Pontypool, spinster Emily Conway Dawson, wife of Jonathan Dawson of Tottenham, near London, Schoolmaster. or the survivor of them. Executor, her husband. Codicils Feb 27 1861 Since the Reverend Micah Thomas is dead, John Harris Conway has been appointed Executor. To J.H. Conway £50 To Catherine Conway 2 silver gravy spoons and 4 silver gravy spoons To Ann Conway 14 Silver tea spoons, 4 silver salt spoons, 8 electro dessert spoons 3 electro egg spoons To William Conway, portrait of late husband and silver pint. To all her nieces her bed and household linen. 1865, October 25th. To servant Sarah Roberts £30. Certified by the District Registrar [Mid 19th century]

Will Brother-in-Law, Ebenezer Harris

D567/11 The Gwent Archve includes a copy of the will of Ebenezer Harris Dated 19th June 1841 Died 1st Nov 1946 Proved 25th Nov 1846. These dates are taken from an Endorsement. Leaves lands bequeathed by Ann Edwards to his trustee the Rev. Micah Thomas so that the terms of his father's will may not be contravened. To wife, Hannah Harris, £1000 and his household furniture. To Rev. Micah Thomas, Rev. Joseph Price, Rev. James Edmunds all books except those in which his wife's name occur. To wife £200 annuity based on 3% consolidated bank. To sisters Mrs Elizabeth Edmunds, Mrs Catherine Price, Mrs Anne Conway, Mrs Rachel Thomas, £500. To nieces & nephews: Mrs Elizabeth Fox, Mrs Rebecca Davies (daughters of late sister Mrs Mary Jenkins), Mrs Sarah Elizabeth Hodgkins, d. Catherine Price, Catherine Conway, John Harris Conway, Anne Conway, William Conway, Emily Conway, £100. To Abraham Edwards, bastard of his brother John Harris, £100, Mrs Esther Chapman only surviving d. of cousin John Harris, £100. To Pontypool Baptist Academy, Bristol Baptist Education Society, Bible Translation Society, Society for Protection of Civil and Religious Liberty, 10 guineas apiece. To Executors £50 apiece. Executors to sell real estate. Full instructions given as to care and conduct of such estate. Proceeds of sale (after debts etc. dealt with) to be invested on Governemnt or real Securities in England or Wales they are to pay one tenth of dividends due to Fox and Davies and one fifth to each of his four daughters, independent of their respective husbands. Wants nephew John Harris Conway made trustee upon first vacancy. Executors Micah Thomas, James Edmunds, William Tanner the younger, attorney at law of Bristol. The will is altered and annotated in a number of cases, as if for presentation in a slightly different form. Foliation 34-42. Endorsed: Conway v Dawson' (3) [Mid 19th century]

John Michael 2

Another slightly different version of the last post exists. This version is almost the same as the last but was published in Welsh in Seren Cymru and has been translated back into English

Tribute to the Rev John Michael

The death occurred on September 18, 1878, of my brother Shôn. He was born in Holyhead on December 7, 1812, and received the usual education for the time. In 1828 he was baptised as a Baptist, having set his sights on becoming a minister some years before. He told the Rev William Morgan of his intention, and under his instruction, and that of the minister of the Independents, the Rev William Griffiths, embarked on the task – and succeeded in it.

As was the custom then, he was called to address the monthly meetings of the churches and practised his mission on the Lleyn peninsula. After that the Missionary Society of Denbighshire appointed him to the failing church that was in Denbigh town to work with the enthusiastic deacon and successful merchant, Mr Foulkes, who had come from London to live there.

In time, and after applying, he was given a clear path to attend the institute in Abergavenny under the guidance of the Rev Micah Thomas. From there he moved to Trosnant under the Rev Dr Thomas, and remained there until he completed his education.

By this time a new church had been built in Llanfihangel Trichornel (on the site of an old meeting place) and a chapel and dwelling house were erected there.

The church was incorporated and my brother became minister there when the new chapel opened on January 5 and 6, 1839.

Now, with a suitable home, my brother sought a wife and married Rachel, the daughter of William Jones (‘Singer’), of Cymmera, Llanwenarth; a beautiful, pure and religious young woman; and with hopes of financial security because of a family connection with two bachelors in Llanbeudan, who, through a legal stroke of luck, owned many thousands of pounds.

In this way Shôn began his ministerial and married life happily. His wife had two children.

There was a cemetery belonging to the chapel, but as nobody in the fellowship sought to use it, since they buried their dead with their families in the consecrated ground of the parish, my brother planted potatoes in the new cemetery.

This was so contrary to the sacred wishes of the people that the fellowship turned against him, and the more he tried to persuade them, the more ferocious they became.

There was a branch of Mr Boyce’s school, as it was known, in the chapel and payment from that was all the minister received. He complained to the good man, who threatened to stop the money. And although Shôn promised not to plant potatoes again after that crop, the fellowship became more and more bitter and he left them.

After that he took over the Welsh fellowship in Cwmbran, and kept a drapery shop on behalf of his brother-in-law, William. But within three years, thanks to the recommendation of the Rev F Hiley, Llanwenarth, and Evans, Pontrhydyryn, he moved to Llangwm.

He stayed there until Rachel’s death and was left a widower with five motherless children – the oldest being 11 and the youngest not even able to walk yet.

The grandfather and grandmother, at Cymerau, took two of the children, the oldest and the youngest but one, leaving the three others with their father; but they had strong support in Cymerau.

In the meantime, for the sake of her health, a young woman returned to the neighbourhood, who had left more than 20 years ago, and had served the whole time as cook to gentlefolk for £52 a year, plus scraps, and had banked all her earnings. She asked my brother to baptise her and accept her as a member of the church. After this she got him to draw up her will and he discovered she was worth more than £500.

My brother, with his eyes open and without the old maid knowing, went to London to enquire into the truth of this story, and having found it was true, courted the spinster. He was successful and married her. She was a competent nurse to him and a tender and caring mother to his children.

Mrs Michael restored him to health, and since she was a hard-working and well-off woman, decided to set up a grocery in the neighbourhood. For convenience, the family moved from Llangwm to Penhow, in Llanfaches. It was the well-to-do and religious reverend gentleman, Thomas Leonard, who, having built a small chapel, established Penuel Church there and my brother became minister there and in Magor and Mrs Michael opened her grocery shop.

By then my brother’s children had grown up, some had married and moved elsewhere. Some went to Liverpool, and two boys went to Nantyglo where they went into business.

My brother sold the grocery shop, took the money in his pocket, and he too went into the works with the children. But the oldest boy, William, died; and the youngest, Lewis, was not successful in the world. My brother’s daughter, Eunice, married a skilful baker, who made hard bread for sailors, and lived in Newport and Usk.

My brother transferred everything he owned to Mr Morgan Thomas, and among other things, a smallholding worth £8 to £10 a year, on the condition that he was supported as long as he lived. And it was with Mr Morgan, his daughter’s husband, that he died in his sleep, lying in his bed, on September 18 or 19 (it is not known which), 1878. He was about 66 and nine months old since he was born on January 7, 1812.

He was buried with his second wife on September 23 in the cemetery of Penhow Chapel, in Llanfaches, Monmouth.

For the previous 10 or 12 years he had been very poorly. He was so unhappy travelling the countryside of Monmouth over styles, ditches and hedges to visit his scattered fellowship, and he tore the hamstrings in both legs which caused him great pain and drove him to take pills and strong drink in order to gain relief; but which, at the same time, poisoned his constitution.

This made him irascible and hurtful at times, both to others and himself. But his doctrinal views comforted him. He was, as they used to say 40 years ago, a man of strong convictions, and he used to say very definitely and with some force: “I know who I believe in,” “I know that my Redeemer lives”, and so on. He was a not a big reader, he preferred to chat over a smoke. Although Shôn was a Calvinist through-and-through, he had close friends among the Fullerites. The Rev Micah Thomas and he were firm friends. So too were Hiley, Llanwenarth, and Evans, Pontrhydyryn. Thomas Kenvin and he would smoke happily together for hours; so too Hefyd Jones, Casbach, and W Thomas, Newport.

My brother’s preaching talents did not depend on tricks or showiness, but went at a slow, considered pace, like the waters of Siloam – filled with salvation to the believers who would bathe in them.

My heart is sad at the burial of my brother.

OWEN MICHAEL

John Michael 1

John Michael studied under Micah Thomas and ministered in the Monmouthshire area, remaining a friend of Thomas's, though not exactly sharing his theology. In the NLW his brother's notes about him in English have been retained. They are as follows



A Memoir
Rev John Michael
Died September the 18th, 1898, my brother John. He was born at Holyhead, December 7th, 1819. He had in his childhood the education customary in those days. He professed religion with the Baptists during the year 1828. It was in his mind some years previously to become a preacher. His desire was made known to the Rev William Morgan and under his directions, as well as those of the Rev William Griffiths, Independent minister, he endeavoured to bring about the realisation of his desire. He succeeded in his purpose. According to the custom of those days permission was given to him by the monthly meeting to preach throughout the churches, his publications having been sent to the churches beforehand. Then he became a missionary at Lleyn. After this the Denbigh Missionary Society appointed him a missionary in connection with the church that was at Denbigh, to co-operate with Mr Foulkes, a zealous deacon and successful merchant who had come from London to reside there.

And in time, after making the necessary application, the way was opened for him to enter the college at Abergavenny under the care of the Rev Micah Thomas. The college was moved from there to Trosnant, Pontypool, under the care of the Rev Dr Thomas and my brother was there to the close of his curriculum.

By that time there was a new church being formed at Llanfihangel Trichornel, an old preaching station. A chapel and private house were built there. The church was incorporated and my brother was ordained there as minister on the day the new chapel was opened, January 5th and 6th, 1839.

Now that he had a suitable habitation my brother went to look for a wife and got married to Rachael, a daughter to William Jones (singer) Cymmera, Llanwenarth; a modest, good looking, clean and religious young maiden with a strong pecuniary hope in the family through a relational connection with the two old bachelors at Llanbeudan who through a mere accident in law had become the possessors of many thousands of pounds. In this way John commenced his ministerial and married life in a happy manner. To his wife were born five children.

There was a graveyard attached to the chapel but as none of the fraternity sought burial there and as they had their dead buried with their families in the consecrated ground of the parish, my brother planted potatoes in the new graveyard. This was so much against the old and sacred notion of propriety that prevailed amongst the people that the fraternity turned against him and the more he endeavoured to convince them, the more and more bitter they became. Connected with the chapel was one of Mr Boyce's schools and payment towards the same was nearly all the remuneration the minister received. Complaints were made to that gentleman. The consequence was that he threatened to withhold his money. And though John promised he would never again plant a potato in the yard after that crop, more and more bitter the fraternity became and the result was that he left them.

He then took charge of the Welsh cause at Cwmbran and kept a drapers' shop for his brother-in-law. But in about three years, through the recommendation of the Reverend F Hiley, Llanwenarth and Mr Evans, Pontrhydyrun, he settled at Llangwm. He lived there until Rachel died and left him a widower with five motherless children, the eldest being 11 years of age and the youngest not able to walk. The grandparents at Cymmera took two children, the eldest boy and the girl next to the youngest, leaving the other three with the father but there was a strong support for them at Cymmera.

About this time there returned to the neighbourhood in quest of health a middle-aged woman who had left the place for over 20 years and during most of this time had served as cook with various gentlemen, receiving at the rate of £52 and more per annum as renumeration for her service. A great deal of what she had thus received had been deposited in a bank. She went to my brother and asked him to baptise her. She also sought church membership. After this she asked him to write out her will. In this way he discovered that she was worth more than £500. My brother, with his eyes open, went to London to make enquiries as to the truth of her statement. Having found out that it was true, he returned and began to pay her his addresses. He was successful. He married her. To him she became a suitable help-meet, and to his children a kind and careful mother. Mrs Michael was restored to her usual health. As she was active and concerned about the material prosperity of her family she determined to open a grocery shop in the neighbourhood. And for the convenience of the family they removed from Llangwm to Penhow, in Llanvaches. That rich, religious and reverend minister, Thomas Leonard had built a sweet chapel there and a church was formed (Penuel) and my brother was reckoned there and at Magor as pastor. Mrs Michael also opened her shop. They were successful here for a long time. However, the health of the active wife failed her once more and she died and was buried at Penhow. By this time my brother's children had grown up. Some of them got married and settled down near Nantyglo and started business there. My brother sold his shop and went away to live with his sons but William the eldest son died. His daughter Eunice got married to a baker and ship chandler who lived in Newport. My brother transferred all he possessed to Mr Morgan Thomas and, amongst other things, a small cottage worth from £8 to £10 per annum, on the condition that he should be supported whilst he lived. And it was with Mr Morgan Thomas, the husband of his daughter, he was when he died in his sleep in bed on the 18th or 19th (it is not known which) of September, 1878. His age was 66 and about nine months. He was respectably buried in the graveyard attached to Penuel Chapel, Llanvaches, Monmouthshire.

His health failed him for some 12 or 15 years before his decease. In travelling over rough places - hedges and ditches - in Monmouthshire, for the purpose of visiting the various members of his scattered flock, he was so unfortunate as to rupture himself very severely. This became the cause of much pain and was the occasion of his resorting to strong medicine and drinks to alleviate his suffering but which at the same time poisoned his constitution. Moreover this produced in him a temper that was fretful and painful to himself and others. But his doctrinal opinion used to comfort him. As it used to be said 40 years ago, he was, as to belief a hyper or antinomian, and he used to say with force and determination “For I know whom I have believed”, “I know that my redeemer liveth”, etc. He was not a great reader. He was very fond of conversation in a humble and familiar manner and especially as in association with smoking. Though it was a rank hyper that John was yet there were to him some very dear friends amongst the Fullerites. The Rev Micah Thomas and himself were true friends. Also Hiley, Llanwenarth, and Evans, Pontrhydyrun. Thomas Kenvin and himself would smoke together for hours most happily. Also Jones, Castleton and W Thomas, Newport. There was nothing of a brilliant or extraordinary character in the preaching gifts of my brother but a quiet, placid, pleasant flowing like the Waters of Siloam, full of salvation for the believing brothers.

Burdened is my breast for the burial of my brother
Budd yw fy mron am briddy fy mrawd

Owen Michael